Perry: In this episode of the therapist experience, I’m speaking with Rebecca Wong from Connectfulness. This is The Therapist Experience episode number 15. Welcome to The Therapist Experience. The podcast where we interview successful therapists about what it’s really like growing a private practice. I’m Perry Rosenbloom, the founder of Brighter Vision, and I’m so excited to introduce our guest today Rebecca Wong from Connectfulness. Rebecca, are you prepared to share your therapist experience?

Rebecca: Yeah, I am Perry. Thanks for having me.

Perry: Awesome. I’m so glad to have you here Rebecca. Rebecca is a relational therapist and consultant in New York’s Hudson Valley where she lives with her husband, two children, and a few four legged mischief makers. She is a creator of Connectfulness, a practice of bringing more intimacy, playfulness, and meaning into all aspects of your life and especially your relationships with people who matter most. Rebecca believes that our relationships are reflections of who we really are, and every interaction is an opportunity for evolution. She uses this approach in the practice of being seen, a virtual try for connection, visibility, and that youness. A place for developing your ability to use yourself and trust your voice when in session and when you write and market your business. Every day Rebecca embraces life as a beautiful, messy, serendipitous adventure. Rebecca, I gave a little overview of you there but why don’t you take a minute, fill in the gaps from that introduction, and tell us a little bit more about you personally and about your practice?

Rebecca: Sure. So I’m a relationships therapist, I’m based in New Paltz, New York. I have two little ones, five and seven years old. I’m training a little over one year old dog. I have a pretty busy private practice. It’s just the right size. It allows me to get creative with other projects without being too overwhelmed and still have time for my family. I’m going to be launching into more then, some e-courses, and I’m really just trying to get creative with my work so that I’m not always doing the same stuff, and Connectfulness is both my brand a bit of a practice that I’m developing. It’s very research based and it’s all about the intersection of intimacy, playfulness, and meaning, and how those qualities really help us to create more sustainable relationships with the people that matter most in our lives and with ourselves.

Perry: And I love that. In this day and age when people are disconnecting more and more with their phones and technology, bringing them back together is so important. And me personally, I noticed the difference. I try to make a point every day when I wake up to not bring my phone downstairs with me, leaving it plugged in so I can be more connected with my family and enjoy the time with them and not be distracted by the dings and the dongs of a cellphone.

Rebecca: It’s really a big deal these days, you know? We’re all so inundated with so much screen time and it’s impacting our human to human relationships in a really big way.

Perry: I agree entirely and I love how you’re positioning yourself in the marketplace. You mentioned Rebecca that you have a very busy private practice and it’s just the right size for you. What is that, the right size?

Rebecca: Yeah. For me, I find that I can’t see more than 15 clients a week and feel fulfilled in the rest of my life at the same time. That I have a balancing point there. So it generally shifts depending on other projects and kind of the format that I’m seeing clients in– Because sometimes when I see couples I’ll see them for longer sessions. Sometimes I’ll offer more intensive. So depending on the work that I’m doing and who my clientele is at the moment, my caseload can vary between like nine and 15 clients.

Perry: So outside of actually seeing clients you’re marketing your practice and you’re growing all these other creative income streams, correct?

Rebecca: Yes.

Perry: Tell us about that? What got you into wanting to develop all these other creative income streams to build your business and build your entrepreneurial enterprises?

Rebecca: It’s all about human to human relationships. I create my best stuff when I’m actually engaged with other people and I’m having a collaborative relationship. I don’t create very well in the vacuum. I don’t think very many of us really do. So I create best with others. That is a really great venue for offering workshops and retreats and other kinds of things.

Perry: Fantastic. Your retreats, are they all in the Hudson Valley New Paltz area? Tell us some more about your retreats and how you got into that?

Rebecca: For now, hahahaha. For now. We’ll see how that grows but for example I have an event coming up in the middle of May. So if anyone is in the New York area it even makes for a great day trip up from the city and it’s called Horseplay. It’s an event where we bring couples, a small group out to an equine center and we watch and we teach them how to watch themselves in terms of how they relate to each other around the horses. So each couple will be coupled up with a horse, they’re not going to be riding a horse but they’re going to be in a paddock with the horse. And we’ll put them through obstacle courses where they have to move around the paddock with the horse and get the horse to do certain things. And we’re really watching and observing their interactions with each other, the horse is just this other being that’s evoking a lot, and it makes it more observable in terms of the patterns in their relationship. And then we get to sit down and play with that and talk about it in a way that if the horse wasn’t there we wouldn’t have the access to.

Perry: So Rebecca, seems like you’re so passionate about working with couples and families and giving that connectfulness back together. Have you always focused on this specific niche, or how did you get into this area of practice?

Rebecca: I think we all have a story, right? And I really believe that every clinician out there, but every person, has a why, has a thing that kind of burns inside of them and it’s their everything. It’s the reason that they live, it’s the reason they do their thing. And I grew up from a really young age hearing stories about my grandparent’s survival of the holocaust. And so much of what has always been imbedded in who I am is this greater why of the people we love the most, and the relationships we have with them, and what family is. And I believe that that really all comes back down to the couple. It comes back down to the individuals but then their constant decision to find each other, and what that teaches children.

Perry: I love that. Rebecca, I’d love to go back to a point in your career as a therapist where you could have called it quits. We all have that in our entrepreneurial journey and you’ve built such an amazing unique private practice where you’re fulfilled in seeing clients and then you’re developing all these other amazing ways to build a thriving practice, a thriving business with retreats and e-courses, and just branching out in all these different directions. But you weren’t always having a thriving business like you do now. I’d love to go back to a point in your career where you were as low as you could possibly be in your journey in private practice, and you were just ready to throw in the towel. So let’s go back to that point and tell us about that point in time and more importantly share with us how you overcame that obstacle?

Rebecca: Which one? Hahahaha.

Perry: Hahahaha.

Rebecca: I feel like there’s one every month. Hahahaha.

Perry: I couldn’t agree more, my goodness. But yeah, that’s the joy of being an entrepreneur, right? So let’s pick one maybe– I don’t know. One that sticks out the most. One where when you’re having a glass of wine at night and you’re talking with your husband about your business and you think, “Man, remember that time?” Let’s take us back to that time specifically?

Rebecca: Yeah. There’s been a whole bunch of times, some messier than others. But probably most notably, last summer I decided– Well, it was a little before last summer. But I decided to leave insurance. I was in network with a whole bunch of different insurance companies and I opted to get out of them because the headache of paperwork and billing and waiting on getting paid– And I just figured, this is going to be a whole lot easier and I’m probably not going to have to see as many clients if I just don’t take insurance. But the headache of getting out of insurance for me, it was about a nine months process and it must have triggered something because at least one of the insurance companies who I won’t name all of a sudden started questioning months and months-worth of sessions that they have already paid. And then withholding payments on other things, and it was so messy. And I sought a lot of consultation from insurance experts… I was putting in so much to try to figure this out that it just– There were certainly days where I was just ready to not work anymore. It was just too hard.

Perry: And how did you persevere through that?

Rebecca: I knew when I was going to be done. And even if I wasn’t going to– I had already resigned from the panels so I knew what my end dates were and even if I lost this huge sum of money, we are talking in the thousands, that there was all this potential for what I was going to do next.

Perry: And that potential allowed you to just pull through it, see that light at the end of tunnel and go, “I’m going to get through this. I’m going to persevere through. To hell with you insurance companies, I’m going to leave you in the dust.” Because you all know everyone hates dealing with the insurance companies.

Rebecca: Well, you know it’s really a struggle because there’s certainly a piece in there where I was struggling internally thinking, leaving insurance is hard enough because it’s how we meet our clients where they are, it’s how we make ourselves more accessible. But there was this funny rift happening very much within me and within how I was running my practice where it wasn’t feeding me and it was depleting me, and leaving it became so much harder once I started that fact. It was almost like, “Yeah, this is really that hard. It really isn’t taking care of me. It’s nothing about self-care. It’s kind of being imbedded in this. It’s not a way for me to sustain my business.

Perry: And how did your clients react? Clients who were using insurance, how did they reach and respond to you moving away and transitioning away from accepting insurance?

Rebecca: Some took referrals to other colleagues within the community. Others decided to stay with me and pay out of pocket and see reimbursement on their own. And a few others lingered with me for a while and then eventually left. But we had a lot of time to process it, like, more than three months. So probably closer to six or nine months for each client. There was certainly like a space to hold that process. And some left before I was off the panels and some left– I mean there was a lot of attrition but I also expected that. And there was also a good amount of retention so–

Perry: So you mentioned before, insurance companies are a good referral source. How did your business adjust and change as you were leaving insurance companies and no longer getting referrals from them. Where did you go to make up those referrals?

Rebecca: Perry, I don’t think I ever got referrals from insurance companies. I think what happened though wasn’t so much that I was getting referrals but that clients were coming to me and they wanted to make sure they could use their insurance. But the insurance companies weren’t directly sending anybody to me. So for me a lot of what I had to do next was really clarify my message and make sure that the people who were finding me knew when they found me that I was person that would resonate with them or wouldn’t. But I wanted to make that message really clear from their first touches of even just seeing my material out there, seeing my website, seeing different profiles online, so that they knew if they wanted to be in touch with me. And if they did– I’m not a big, this is why you have to work with me, kind of person. I very much put myself out there. I have an FAQ page on my website and I pretty much refer everybody who contacts me to that page before they book a session with me.

Perry: To make sure that you guys are a good fit. People want to do business with those that they know like and trust. And that detailed FAQ page that’s written by you or written with the help of a professional writer who gets to know you is a really great way to sift through people who might not be a good fit and make sure that you’re attracting your ideal client.

Rebecca: Yeah, it’s been one of the best tools on my website.

Perry: So Rebecca, you’ve come such a long way from the rift from insurance companies and growing past that. But one thing we often see therapists struggle with in their early days, and even in later days, is actually with pricing themselves well. Would you mind sharing with our audience what your current rate is to see a client?

Rebecca: Yeah. For 45 minute sessions I charge 175 and for 75 minute sessions, which I generally suggest for couples but I leave flexibility for them to decide what’s right for them, I charge 250.

Perry: Perfect. And did you start at that rate as soon as you left the insurance panels? Tell us about your journey to that rate?

Rebecca: My rate has actually bounced around a little and I have– A lot of where I’m at with my rates right now has a lot to do with client feedback and what clients feel that they can pay, what feels reasonable. Some has even evolved out of conversation with clients. So there’s been a lot of conversation about the value and the service to see what is a good fit. And this rate feels really good for everybody right now.

Perry: That’s perfect. You don’t have to deal with insurance companies and you work with your clients to come up with a rate that felt good to you and feels good to them. And it’s a competitive rate. You’re in New York. I mean, you’re practicing about 40 minutes north of where I grew up. It’s an expensive place to live. It’s good to be able to see that you’re able to charge a good rate and provide an amazing service and value to your clients. So one thing we found over the years that therapists really struggle with is marketing their business. Or they feel that marketing and sales can be sort of a dirty word. But there’s absolutely no way that you could have grown such a thriving private practice without marketing. I’d love for you to share with our audience what you feel was a single best marketing move that you made for your practice and why do you feel like it worked so well for you?

Rebecca: Single. That’s the word I’m hung up on there. Hahahaha.

Perry: Let’s choose one and then let’s branch out to the others.

Rebecca: I think there’s a lot of pieces in here but what a lot of it comes down to if I had to kind of pick one piece is crafting a story that really connects to your ideal plan. Knowing them so well that when they’re reading your words they just know that you’re talking to them.

Perry: Fantastic. And Rebecca are you a writer or did you have professional copy-writing help to craft your story and your words?

Rebecca: I’m a wannabe writer, a former art student. Haha. I’m really good at kind of putting visuals and visions together but I’m not so great getting my words out and making it sound like I’m actually in the room talking to somebody all the time. So I have a colleague Marisa Goudy and she has been– We were mothers of New Paltz together sitting on a kitchen table drafting up my early, early copy years and years ago for my website. But we’ve been working together for years and we now run a group called ‘The Practice of Being Seen Together’ where she’s a writing coach and we bring this to other clinicians. We really help them connect to their personal story of why and bring that into a branding message and help them get that story out to others.

Perry: That’s fantastic. I never knew about that. Tell us more about the work you guys do?

Rebecca: Well, right now it’s going to eventually be launching into a podcast but right now we’re going to be going into our third cohort of our Facebook group. We don’t have open enrollment. We keep a wait list and allow people to sign up for it and when we open the group we open it to a limited number to keep it in intimate space so that we can all really feel comfortable exploring our own journeys. And it’s just a really wonderful dialogue. It goes a lot deeper than pretty much any group I’ve seen on Facebook. And it is on Facebook. That’s where it exists. It’s a really fun collaborative process. Not just with Marisa and I but with all of the clinicians that have joined us in that.

Perry: So you guys charge, I would imagine, for clinicians to be a part of that group and then you work and coach them to help them find their own voice, is that correct?

Rebecca: We’re going to start charging sometime soon. Hahahahaha. So far it’s been a labor of love that has evolved out of just kind of testing market and seeing what we are creating. And I think we’re creating something pretty special so it’s going to keep evolving.

Perry: Awesome. We’ll have links to this in the show notes over at brightervision.com/session15. But just so our viewers can hear on the podcast, what’s the url for this group and to be able to sign up for the wait list?

Rebecca: Well, the easiest way to find it is to go to the connectfulness.com website and there’s a tab for professionals. And if you go under that tab you’ll see the group that’s called the practice of being seen.

Perry: Perfect. And of course, everybody, we will have links to this in the show notes. This is just fantastic stuff Rebecca. I’m loving this. One thing I like to ask everyone on this show is about your school. You went to school to become a therapist, not to get your MBA.

Rebecca: Mhm. My sister did that. Hahaha.

Perry: She got her MBA? So you’ve got some good help there. Man, that’s great. Haha. You decided to open up your own practice. What do you feel is the one things you would have learned in school about starting your own business?

Rebecca: I think just how to organize it all. Especially in social work school there was so much focus on service and being of service and what settlement homes are like. It’s so the opposite to be in private practice. We get so– When I was in school there was so much of a push back even about wanting to be in private practice. And so much of the emphasis was on what you really need to pay your dues, you really need to do your time, you really need to gain experience before you can even think about that. Private practice was really in many ways a very dirty word. And I think there’s something to having a foundation before you go into private practice because private practice is incredibly isolating. The early days of my careers where I worked among and with and shoulder to shoulder with other colleagues really informed how I practice now. But the business side of it, it’s a whole new cup of tea. It’s something that just the everyday– Like having to set everything up, having to get an MBI number and figure out all the little pieces. There’s a lot of little stuff that’s really great to have someone hold your hand through it.

Perry: You know, you’re actually the third LCSW that we’ve had on the show, and every single LCSW has mentioned about when they were in school the idea of going into private practice was–

Rebecca: Dirty.

Perry: Yeah, dirty word. You were discouraged from going into private practice.

Rebecca: Because you’re not supposed to make money as a social worker. You’re supposed to help people who have no money.

Perry: And I think you can merge the two together. You can provide value and help people, and be an entrepreneur. Because you have to make a living, you have to feed your family and you have to find joy and value, and some people love being an entrepreneur.

Rebecca: And I feel like there’s also room Perry for different ways of being of service, but when we limit ourselves and we say there’s only one thing that we can do, that’s where we get really stuck and where we burn out. But because I’ve limited my private practice and I said I’m not going to see more than 15 clients a week, and that’s at my top, I have a lot more space to create other things like maybe write a book one day, or one of the projects I have going on right now is a 21 day email series that is going to come out in June, that I’m collaborating with a couples yoga teacher and a financial planner on.

Perry: Awesome.

Rebecca: Yeah, and it’s free.

Perry: What’s this email series about? Tell us about it?

Rebecca: It’s about rebooting your relationship and it’s about how we’re all feeling pretty depleted in time, money, and energy. And we’re going to give you some great expert tips on how you can reboot yourselves. So this is free and I wouldn’t have the energy or the time or money to sit down and write this series with my colleagues if I were seeing back to back clients all day long. Now I’m creating free content in addition to creating other streams of income for myself.

Perry: So you’re able to serve the community to help people who might not have 175 dollars to see you for a session but you’re still able to provide value to them and help them.

Rebecca: And I’m able to create things like the Horseplay event which is a 200 dollar event, it’s about three hours long. It’s not therapy, it’s not an ongoing thing. It’s a onetime thing for a couple.

Perry: Love it. And Rebecca, what technology are you guys going to use for your email campaign? For the 21 day email course?

Rebecca: MailChimp. Hahahahaha.

Perry: So you’re going to have an email go out every day, right?

Rebecca: Yeah, for 21 days it’s going to all be already created by that point. We’re in creation mode right now. And it’s going to be one email a day for 21 days.

Perry: Awesome. Can I suggest something for you guys to take a look into as well?

Rebecca: Of course you can.

Perry: A technology that I absolutely love and we use here at Brighter Vision is called Get Drip. It’s actually technology designed specifically for drip email campaigns. So MailChimp is phenomenal. I love MailChimp and we recommend it to almost all of our clients but what’s great for it in my opinion is a newsletter blast. To build and maintain an email list. Whereas drip, which you can find at I believe it’s getdrip.com and of course we’ll put links in this week’s show notes, their technology is designed specifically for drip email campaigns. So signing up for an email course, it’s delivered over the course of 21 days or 10 days. Check it out.

Rebecca: Yeah, I’ll look into that.

Perry: I’m in love with it. I used to use MailChimp and Drip and we transitioned fully to Drip recently just because it was better suited, because we love doing email Drip campaigns as well. I think it’s a really effective way to provide a lot of value to people who may or may not use your services but will be able to get value from what you’re able to provide.

Rebecca: And I Think that there’s a lot of value also just for building trust within your community. When people get to know you, even if they never tap into your services, if they are excited about reading your emails they’re more likely to also mention you or refer you to somebody else.

Perry: Exactly. I couldn’t agree more. It goes back to the know, like, and trust thing. An email is a fantastic way to cultivate and nurture that relationship. Far better than, in my opinion– The flavor of the year a few years ago was, give me those e-books for downloading. And some people still use those and they can be effective but what I found personally with e-books to download and building lists that way, while it will help you build a list generally when someone downloads an e-book– I don’t know about you but personally I’ll download an e-book and it ends up in my downloads folder and it never gets opened. Haha.

Rebecca: I have the messiest downloads folder. I need to clean up for it. Hahahahaha.

Perry: Hahaha. But where a drip email campaign where you’re sending five or ten or 21 emails over the course of a set period of time–

Rebecca: It’s more manageable.

Perry: Yeah, and they’ll read it. And they’ll read it, they’ll get the value, and they’ll move on.

Rebecca: And if they don’t like it they’ll unsubscribe. And there’s no clutter. I like that piece of it too. I really like that we can create something that’s bite-sized pieces because I’m all about making things sustainable. And if you’re not going to be able to implement it, we don’t want to overwhelm you. So in this email series every tip that we’re putting out there can be done within 10 minutes or less a day.

Perry: Awesome, that’s great. Alright, Rebecca. Now we’re going to move into the final part of our interview. The part we like to refer to as brighter insights. And what I really love about this part is just like a Q&A lightning round where we get to distill down your advice and guidance into quick little soundbites and answers that people can use to help motivate and inspire then throughout the week. So Rebecca, are you ready?

Rebecca: Yes I am, Perry.

Perry: What or whom inspired you to become a mental health professional?

Rebecca: I don’t know if I ever would have called it mental health professional in the early days but it certainly is my grandparents journey and just seeing what survival looks like from the inside.

Perry: That’s really powerful. What do you do to clear your head and get a fresh start in your day?

Rebecca: Meditate. Sometimes that is me just sitting down and staring at a blank wall, and sometimes it’s literally me training my dog. That actually becomes a meditative practice as well. I have to slow down.

Perry: You know, this is the 15th episode we’ve done and I’m pretty certain answer to that question has been meditate. I’m so excited to get like a 100 episodes in and create an infographic on all the answers here and you’re just going to see meditate dominate.

Rebecca: It’s so important to slow down. We’ve taken so much information as mental health professionals about everybody else. We have to be able to tune into ourselves.

Perry: That’s very true. So Rebecca, You’ve managed to use a lot of great technology to help you grow your practice. I’d love to know some of the tools that you’ve used to leverage the power of technology in your business, so that technology is no longer a hurdle but instead an asset for you?

Rebecca: VAs. Hahahahaha.

Perry: They are very important. Where do you find your VAs?

Rebecca: Word of mouth. It generally is word of mouth. I would talk to my colleagues and find out who they’re using and who they have a good relationship with. Who it feels like that’s them. I have different VAs for different projects. I have one who will write email campaigns and stuff for me, and I have another one who does all of my– I don’t use you guys at Brighter Vision, because I had a custom site already, not because I have any issues with Brighter Vision or anything like that. What I’ve seen come out of you guys is amazing–

Perry: Thank you.

Rebecca: — But I have a VA who does all the backend stuff on my WordPress site.

Perry: Awesome. So for anybody who’s listening here who does not know what a VA is. VA stands for virtual assistant. Basically someone who is in this country, out of this country, around the world somewhere who does some tasks for you to take them off your plate. And Rebecca, are your virtual assistants stateside or are they all across the globe?

Rebecca: Canada and the Mid-West.

Perry: Perfect. What’s a quote that you hold near and dear? Something that has helped formulate your perspective on life and provided guidance and inspiration for you?

Rebecca: There’s a few. I think one of the best ones that I come back to really often is that, “Between the things that happen to us to stimulus and a reaction to a stimulus, there lies a space. And in that space lies our power and our freedom to choose our response and in our response lies our happiness.”

Perry: Do you know where that quote was from?

Rebecca: Yeah. It’s from Victor Frankl from ‘Man’s Search for Meaning’.

Perry: If you could recommend one book to our audience, what would that book be?

Rebecca: Stephen Covey’s “Seven Habits of Highly Effective People”. I come back to this book often because I think both as a business person and as a human being in relationship it is a really helpful book.

Perry: And what are one of the habits that really resonate with you?

Rebecca: There’s a lot. Beginning with the end in mind, sharpening the saw, really focusing on understanding others. In order to influence others you have to be able to be influenced by others. So there’s a lot of habits in there that just really resonate.

Perry: Alright, Rebecca. Last question. If you moved to a new city tomorrow and knew nobody– And I don’t know why you want to move to a new city because I love New Paltz, but if you did and you didn’t know anybody there. And all you had with you was your computer and 100 dollars to start a new private practice. What is it that you would do on your very first day?

Rebecca: I’d go take a walk with my dog. I’m serious.

Perry: I love that. My family and I try to get out for at least two walks every day, and it’s been harder since we’ve had our newborn a few months back, but yeah.

Rebecca: Yeah, kids and dogs make life a little bit more challenging but I would seriously take my dog for a walk because she opens up conversations everywhere I go and I would meet the community. And I think that’s the first step is that you have to put your foot in the door. You have to get to know people. You have to know whether I want to rent an office, what part of town do I want to be in, who lives here, where do they go. And getting out and just walking and talking to people. That’s the best way to get to know the community.

Perry: That’s some great advice. I thought it was going to be more of a, “I take my dog out and relax and get focused.” But you took it in a direction I wasn’t expecting and that’s a really great point. What kind of dog do you have, Rebecca?

Rebecca: She’s a rescue. She’s a Lab mix, she’s 13 months old and we are training her to be a therapy dog. She’s going to work with me.

Perry: Fantastic. And do you guys go hiking in the Gunks a lot?

Rebecca: Yeah, she loves hiking in the Gunks.

Perry: And the Gunks for anybody listening are just an amazing mountain range right in New Paltz. World famous rock climbing and it’s so beautiful out there.

Rebecca: Yeah, it’s in our backyard. We definitely take advantage.

Perry: Alright, Rebecca. This has been awesome, where can our listeners find you to connect and learn more about you?

Rebecca: Connectfulness.com. I have a secondary site for my private practice but it links through on the Connectfulness site. That’s really just a one stop.

Perry: Perfect. And of course you can learn more about Rebecca and all the great resources that she has mentioned this week over at the show notes which you’ll find at brightervision.com/session15.

Rebecca: Perry, thanks for having me.

Perry: Oh Rebecca, it was a pleasure. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for all the great advice you’ve provided and the therapist experience you have shared.

Rebecca: Thanks.

Perry: Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you have a question for us you can email it to us at [email protected], and if you’re interested in launching a website please don’t hesitate to reach out to us. Brighter Vision is the worldwide leader in custom therapist website design. For just 59 dollars a month you’ll get a website that’s as unique as your practice. Unlimited technical support and complementary search engine optimization so people can find you online. That does it for today. Thank you so much tuning in and we will catch you next week.