Perry: In this episode of The Therapist Experience, I’m speaking with Rajani Venkatraman Levis from Levis Therapy. This is The Therapist Experience episode number 19. Welcome to The Therapist Experience. The podcast where we interview successful therapists about what it’s really like growing a private practice. I’m Perry Rosenbloom, the founder of Brighter Vision, and I’m so excited to introduce our guest today Rajani Venkatraman Levis from Levis Therapy. Rajani, are you prepared to share your therapist experience?

Rajani: I can’t wait, Perry. Thank you for having me.

Perry: It is my pleasure. You are doing such amazing work, amazing work in our community. Yeah, let me tell our audience about you. Rajani is a writer, counselor educator, psychotherapist and community builder. As a psychotherapist in private practice she envisions culturally congruent therapy as the art and science of building bridges between cultures. She artfully navigates the intersections of trauma with race, culture, class and other facets of diversity in her writing, teaching, and psychotherapy practice. Rajani is a California licensed marriage and family therapist, a certified trauma specialist, and an EMDRIA approved consultant in EMDR. She enjoys a successful private practice in San Francisco, teaches at San Francisco State University, and her writing has been featured on the Huffington Post. As a global citizen who speaks five languages, Rajani is sought out by clients, colleagues and students for her nuanced attention to cultural attunement in her specialized training in EMDR therapy. And as an entrepreneur she has dedicated to creative possibilities for therapists as community builders and agents of social change. Rajani, that was such a fun bio to read. But I gave a fairly comprehensive overview of you there but let’s learn more about you personally and more about your practice?

Rajani: Personally, I’m an immigrant woman of color who is also a therapist. So I define myself by this intersection that I both live and work at. This intersection of race, class, culture, gender, immigration, privilege, and oppression. These themes tend to be front and center in my professional life as much as they have been and continue to be my personal life. My professional address is at this really interesting intersection. It’s a very bustling junction where my understanding of both privilege and oppression intersect. So that’s part of how my practice has been defined as well.

Perry: Where did you immigrate from and how old were you when you moved to the states?

Rajani: So I spent the first 20 years of my life in India. I grew up in Calcutta and my parents still live there. And I spent the last 20 in San Francisco, in and around the Bay Area. If that really counts for 20-20 then my perspective must be perfect. Hahahaha.

Perry: Hahahaha. Yeah, I think it would be. I was thinking those first two or three years might not count but I’ve got a three year old right now and those years definitely count.

Rajani: Hahahaha. I like to think that maybe someday all of this experience will amount to really having 20-20 vision and being able to see things with great clarity. Haha.

Perry: So you speak five different languages. What are the languages that you speak?

Rajani: I grew up speaking– We coat-switched all the time between Hindi, Bengali, Tamil, and English. All the time. I mean, it was around us, and at home, and at school. We studied three languages at school so all my education was in English, but we studied Hindi starting from kindergarten, and then along the way you’ll pick up a third language and Bangla was my third language. So a number of years into it– Tamil was what we spoke at home all the time because my parents are from the south. Growing up speaking foreign languages wanting to pick up a fifth was kind of a no-brainer, so I chose Japanese and studied Japanese for five years, and went to Japan as a guest of their government. They used to do these scholarships, I don’t know if they still do them, where you take a national test and they select a handful of people from each country to go to Japan as a guest, the top scholars in the exam.

Perry: Wow, that’s amazing. Cool. Rajani, can you elaborate more on your experiences growing up and in your life, and how you work in this niche and this intersection of race, class, culture. Share with our audience what a day in Levis Therapy looks like?

Rajani: So I know what it feels like when I belong and I know what it feels like when I long to belong. And I think that explains some of the work that I really do. I know what it felt like for me to grow up being in a very dominant category of Hindu brahmin in India and how invisible my own privilege was to me growing up in that way. And so I also know now what it feels like for me when I stew in this discomfort of feeling uttered, or feeling alone, or feeling tokenized, sometimes even uniquely located as a visible minority but yet feeling completely missed. So I can say in short that I often feel this familiar ache of being brown in America, being brown in the US. And so I’ve also come to see that as a therapist of color this is a place of privilege that I have amongst many who have been uttered in the same way, that I get to name this and acknowledge this as part of the therapeutic work. So while I’m western trained and psychotherapy is this very western construct, my very physical characteristics as a woman of color and my own immigration narrative actually represent something unique and valuable to my clients. I’m both assemble of something familiar and comforting to them. But also someone who understands their ongoing struggle to belong and can give face and voice to their aspirations. I embody the hope that brings many immigrants to this country, right? So the therapeutic alliance that I have with my very diverse clients is built on and strengthened by this shared understanding.

Perry: That is just so fantastic. This is 19th interview we’ve done and a very unique approach to psychotherapy that is just so unique to you and your history and who Rajani is. And it’s really fascinating to hear this in your own words and understand this other element of psychotherapy and how you’re able to bring your history and your background to help others. That’s just really amazing. I’m kind of speechless here. So let’s go back, Rajani, to a point in your career as a therapist where you could have called it quits because you didn’t always have this thriving private practice that you have today. And we love exploring the entrepreneurial journey with our clients and part of that is understanding where were you at your lowest point as an entrepreneur. Share with us that moment and then more importantly share with us how you overcame that struggle and that adversity?

Rajani: I have two moments actually.

Perry: Fire away.

Rajani: I think they’re both worth talking about. So the first moment I like to think of as beautiful gifts sometimes come in very ugly packages.

Perry: Hahaha. What if you forget to wrap a gift, like I do almost every year for my wife’s birthday? Hahaha.

Rajani: Hahahahaha. Well, you know, I think wrapping was helpful in this case because I don’t know– Yeah, probably get you to come about otherwise. So when I was in my very first traineeship, my first field of placement, a client of mine suffered a psychotic break in the middle of a session and I was assaulted. And it was a very intense moment. It was my very first field placement and I suffered acute stress. The client had to be 51-50 so involuntarily hospitalized. And I was living alone, an immigrant, with family halfway across the world, whom I didn’t want to worry by telling them, “Hi, I have this massive bruised on my body and my neck because somebody tried to strangle me and, you know, on my thigh because I got thrown against something and I’m freaking out.” So my therapist at the time recommended that I try EMDR therapy. And I hadn’t heard of it, and I lifted him and I said, “Look, I’m a student. I’m struggling to pay my bills. I can’t tag on anything else.” And he looked at me point black and said, “This is not a luxury, this is a necessity for you right now. This is about you taking care of you and you got to. This is not an option.” And I did, and that was my first exposure to EMDR therapy. Fast forward a number of years I had the opportunity to be trained and I jumped on it because this is what really helped me to uncover the beautiful gift inside of that ugly package.

Perry: So do you find that– Tell us more about your practice and the breakdown of things. Do you do a lot of EMDR work? Is that maybe 50 with other work that you do or how much EMDR work do you do with your clients?

Rajani: My primary modality is EMDR therapy so I would say 100% of my work is that.

Perry: So you weren’t planning getting into EMDR but that experience exposed you to it and showed you the power of it?

Rajani: It was life changing. It really was. That was a moment in my career that I could have called it quits and thrown in the towel, and EMDR really helped me.

Perry: I bet many people would have, especially as a student. It’s got to be kind of like, “What am I getting into?” And with your family halfway across the world, that just makes that so much more challenging, I would imagine, and I would imagine all of your clients are very grateful that you stuck with it and learned about EMDR and been able to help countless others. Share with us the second experience?

Rajani: The second experience is that as I was just post-graduation and starting to do the big chunk of my 3000 supervised hours towards licensure, it finally kind of clicked for me that what I was learning was this very western modality. That psychotherapy was created in the west, and I didn’t know how to integrate it with my cultural background. With who I am, the values that I come in with. What is it really like for me, a child of India, to be practicing this very western form of healing. So there came a moment where I couldn’t hold these opposites and didn’t know how to bring them together. Being in the west wasn’t congruent with what I needed to do next. And my then supervisor gave me the permission to walk away and said, “Take your time, integrate your life experiences with your education, with your culture. Go home, do what you need to do.” I always will remain grateful for Cathy for that. It was one of the best gifts I have ever received from a mentor. The permission to walk away and do what I needed to do so I can come back with all of me integrated into the work. Not just the part of me that was being trained and oriented in the west, but really bringing in my culture, my heritage, my background, my lineage. All of it with this training.

Perry: And how did you?

Rajani: Long journeys. Hahaha. These journeys are both journeys inwards and outwards. For me, there was a very physical outward journey to India, to be there for a period of time. There were actually several journeys, some that just involved travelling and spending time with family. Some involved a meditation practice in India, some involved taking a group of American teenagers to India to do a community service project and be there. Another journey involved going to India to help setup a mental health clinic there.

Perry: Oh my goodness.

Rajani: So I think there had to be both these outward journeys but also these inward journeys to that no woman’s land inside of me that is unique to each person. To climb my own depths, to see what still needed to be integrated, to be brought together, to be tenderly touched and loved and experienced differently through new perspectives.

Perry: And what kind of timeline are we looking at there? Is that a two to three year break, was it a clean break just doing all those outward and inward journeys? Or was it hand in hand with your training here in the states?

Rajani: It was a clean break for two years and then going back to help setup a mental health clinic in the hospital was when I could actually nit things back together and weave it into, “Wow, this is what it feels like to be me practicing my western training here in India and re-experiencing that.”

Perry: And the people who attended this clinic in India, how did they respond to more of a western style of psychotherapy. I know you integrated your own philosophies into it that would work better in that culture, but how did they respond to psychotherapy which, as you said, is more of a western infused idea?

Rajani: Psychology exists in India but the concept of marriage and family therapy, the way that we practice it, is not known and it doesn’t exist as much outside of a medical domain. It was– I actually wrote an essay that was published in the book of Praeger Handbook of Community Mental Health. It’s an essay called ‘Dancing naked on the bridge’ about this journey. Kind of, what is this bridge that goes back and forth between cultures when you live in more than one world, and how do you learn to inhabit that bridge and become your authentic self and dance naked on it? Hahaha.

Perry: Haha. That’s all– Such an amazing journey that you’ve had. I’m so glad we’re having this conversation. So you’ve come such a long way, Rajani, from both of those experiences. One thing we often see with our clients and with people we speak with on the phone is therapists really struggle with pricing themselves well. Would you mind sharing with our audience what your current rate is to see a client, how long that session is, and let us know what your journey to that rate was like?

Rajani: Absolutely. My current rate is 165 dollars for a 45 minute session and for the EMDR reprocessing sessions sometimes we do longer sessions, which could be anywhere from 60 to 90 minutes. What I’ve learned over time with regards to rate is now when people enquire about reduced fees or sliding scale, I have a section on my website that really reiterates that I have commitment to serving the community in a variety of ways. And here are the waves that I’m supporting community even if you can’t afford my full fee, is that I don’t need a percentage of all my client fees back to the community. I see one pro bono client at any given time. I see one client through open paths like Therapy Collective. I’m a therapist educator and my students all see clients at reduced fees. I’m a camp certified supervisor and I supervise student clinicians for another community clinic that offers low-feed therapy. These are all the ways that I support the community and give back. As far as my rate goes I no longer accept sliding scale kinds. So I had to find that balance where I can feel really in integrity with my fee.

Perry: That makes perfect sense. And by doing all the ways you give back to the community, that’s so awable and it’s so helpful in this market or in psychotherapy. Because there are lots of people who can’t afford psychotherapy but they need help. And being able to give back in all these different ways must be so rewarding. So Rajani, you have a private practice in San Francisco, right?

Rajani: That’s right.

Perry: That has to be one of, if not the most, competitive markets for psychotherapy in the country. Would you agree with that statement?

Rajani: You know, what I learned and how I really think about it, Perry, is that we need to build our practices through community, not competition. And this is my incredibly rich community here in the bay area and not my competitive focus at all.

Perry: I love that standpoint. I’m sorry I interrupted you there.

Rajani: That’s okay. And for me this work of building a practice with people has been very rewarding.

Perry: I love the idea and a viewpoint that these are not your competitors here but it’s your community. And you build a practice through your community but the fact remains that you still have to market, you still have to get yourself out there. You still have to grow your private practice. And just the sheer number of psychotherapists in the Bay Area is astronomical. One thing I’d love for you to share with us, Rajani, is what you feel is the best marketing move you made for your practice and why do you feel like it worked so well for you?

Rajani: So it’s not a single move but it’s an overall marketing strategy, I think. Diversity and variety. For therapists, our name is our brand, right? So I threw myself in all the things that I love with total gusto. Writing, training, teaching, collaborating, mentoring, supporting, building community, putting on events. I did everything that I loved doing and I got to know these amazing people in the community, both local and around the country. And threw it all because my name kept showing up with very consistent messaging in everything I did. It was just this is who I am and this is what I care about, this is how I practice. And the referrals just kept coming in.

Perry: So the givers gain mentality, would that be correct?

Rajani: I think in my mind that motto really is building a successful practice through community, not competition.

Perry: That’s just such a phenomenal line. We got to name the episode that. Building a successful practice through community, not competition. I mean, that just embodies you. And you said that your consistent messaging throughout. As I was reading your bio it was so clear that you worked very hard on your messaging, on your branding and on who you are as a psychotherapist and who you are as a person, and blending the two of them together to create a thriving private practice and a thriving community. And I’m just so blown away by all the amazing work you’ve done and how you’ve grown your practice here.

Rajani: I love it. And when you do something with love, it’s not hard work.

Perry: That is true. Especially if you’re able to pay the bills that way.

Rajani: For sure, yes.

Perry: One thing– Another question I love to ask our guests here is still coming back to business. So you went to school to become a psychotherapist not to get your MBA. But along the way you have decided to open your own private practice, and your experience, and your therapist experience in your journey is so wildly breathtaking and has all these amazing twists and turns but what’s the one thing that you wish you would have learned when you were in school about starting your own business? And your experience and your journey has probably taught you so much about being a business owner, but what’s something you wish you learned in school that would have helped you to navigate this journey here?

Rajani: You’re going to think it’s really crazy but I wish I had learned about space gynecologists. Hahahahahahaha.

Perry: Hahahahahahaha. Please elaborate?

Rajani: Yesterday I was telling my students that I just read an article about a space gynecologist, like go figure that’s an actual profession. That got me really excited because this is what I’ve been trying to communicate to my students lately. I’m sure that Dr. Varsha Jain who is a space gynecologist wasn’t four years old telling everybody, “That’s who I’m going to become when I grow up.” But along the way she created this sub-specialty I imagine where this is what she does. But it brings together all her interests in life. And this is what I encourage students to do and that I wish I had had a mentor work with me to say, what’s your passion? What are your areas of competence? What life experiences are you bringing into this? What is your diversity experience that you can really integrate with all of this? What basic business skills can we give you? And then help to put together wild dreams. That’s where it starts. A business plan doesn’t start with all the concrete pieces, right? It starts with, “I have a crazy idea and I’m just going to write it down and think about it and dream about it until I can uncover my heart’s longing for what is it that I really want and then put all my energy behind it.”

Perry: I mean, even starting a business in itself is such a crazy idea. We’re going to go and we’re going to build websites that looks like you’ve spent four to five thousand dollars but in fact you’re just going to pay us less than two dollars a day. How on earth is that ever going to be profitable? How on earth is that ever going to be sustaining? I mean, that’s Brighter Vision. That’s what we set out to do. And gosh, it was quite a journey to this stage and this point. And we’ve questioned ourselves, we have plenty of people question, how are you going to build– You’re building, doing all this work and all this high quality production for that price and the same thing with any entrepreneur. I’m going to set out and I’m going to be number one expert in this specific niche and this specific area, and I’m going to build a community around this and make sure that everyone knows who I am. So when they have a client who needs help with this, they know how to refer someone to me.

Rajani: That’s right. And, Perry, You think community-wide as well. That’s what I really appreciated was when I got a grant to create a business of psychotherapy conference last year. And I reached out to you, cold-called to you and said, “We don’t know each other and I’m somebody who cares about the community. And I want to help therapists think about business and I have a grant to do something. Not enough money to do everything I want to do but, hey, do you want to support me? Do you want to give away a Brighter Vision year-long plan to one of my attendees? This is not for me. This is for other therapists.” And you said, “Yes, let’s partner. Let’s do something.”

Perry: We embrace it with so much gusto. And even at that point we were chatting before we started recording here. At that point I think I was talking to you from my lazy boy because I had just pulled a disk from carrying around my newborn baby and sneezing on the stairs. And just like, and also you say we are so passionate about helping the community here. And we were chatting again before the show about how much we love this community. This community of psychotherapists and working with psychotherapists to help them build a business and a thriving private practice. That’s why we do the Therapist Experience. When I first launched this podcast I thought it was going to be a great way to help educate people and a great marketing tool for us. But what we found is that our existing clients love this more than people who– And are the primary listeners than other people that are out there. And that caught me by so much surprise. And it’s been such a wonderful experience to hear our clients calling in and writing in to our support being like, “Hey, you just talked about this with Eddie Reece on this episode. Can you put this on my website?” I was like, “Yeah, let’s definitely do it.” And it just helped build such a much better community inside our community. And yeah, I mean building a thriving business through community, right?

Rajani: Right. And we also do these things because we see a gap or we had a need that wasn’t filled and we want to make sure we can do that for other people, right?

Perry: Most certainly.

Rajani: I was lonely, I needed a community of therapists. So I go out and I make it for myself, you know? And there were things that I’ve wanted in school that I didn’t get and now I make sure that I talk with my students at the university about that.

Perry: And hopefully your students then can take that knowledge, and anybody listening to this who are still a student, because we’d love more our conferences if we encounter somebody who is a student like, “Hey, take this about the therapist experience so you can learn about private practice and see if that’s the right option for you.” So for anybody listening to this podcast whether it’s the day it gets released or years later can take your experience and your knowledge and be able to pursue their private practice and their education in the style that makes sense and is right for them.

Rajani: Absolutely, without a doubt.

Perry: Alright, Rajani. Now we’re going to move into the final part of our interview. Actually, before we move into the final part of our interview I want you to tell me about this amazing project that you’re going to be launching by the time this episode was live. You’re about to tell me what it was during the break here but I wanted to hear why for the first time. So share with me and share with our audience this amazing new project that you’re going to be launching by the time this episode airs? Not to put the pressure on you here. Hahaha. But I did just put the pressure on you. Haha.

Rajani: Well, sometimes even botanists will tell you that an orchid needs just the right amount of stress in order to bloom. So here we go. This project that needs to bloom is called Talking About Therapy and it’s a website that is catalogued the millions of post its in my head over the years because I connect with so many therapists and resources about both therapy and therapists as entrepreneurs. I have an incredible rolodex of information and I just want to offer it to the community. I want to put it together in a website as a free resource for therapists or entrepreneurs to be able to look up and go, “Where do I go for information about hipaa or documentation?” Or if I need a particular book about launching my own private practice, or where can I get free images for my website? Who would be a good company for designing my website? Brighter Vision of course. Where do I put all this information that’s in my mental rolodex? It will be this website, talkingabouttherapy.com/

Perry: I love it. That is so awesome. So everybody here, you can go talkingabouttherapy.com/ to learn more, or of course, we will have it in this week’s show notes at brightervision.com/session19/ and I just pulled it up talkingabouttherapycom/ and I love this. This looks awesome. I hope you don’t hate me that I pulled this up?

Rajani: Hahahahaha. Thank you, Perry.

Perry: 1925+ coffees and teas consumed, is that over the course of your experience in therapy or is that just about launching this website?

Rajani: That’s about right for a year. Most of my hard work is fueled by black tea and occasional cups of coffee. But strong chai.

Perry: Awesome. Well, I love it and I can’t wait to explore this some more and to have all of our audience check it out. Again that’s talkingabouttherapy.com/ or of course you can always see that in this week’s show notes at brightervision.com/session19. Alright, Rajani. Now we’re really going to move into the final part of our interview. The part we like to refer to as Brighter Insights. And our whole goal here is to take all these wonderful notes that you have in your head, well not all of them but a small, small, small portion of them, and distill them down into quick sound bites that our audience can use to inspire and motivate them throughout the week. Are you ready?

Rajani: I am ready.

Perry: What or whom inspired you to become a mental health professional?

Rajani: Life inspired me, and along the way since therapy is often a second profession for many marriage and family therapists, I was going through an interesting crossroads and there were eight of my girlfriends who came together one day at my dinner table and brainstormed what my next career should be. They asked me to go on a walk and when I came back their list included go to school, get your master’s degree, become a marriage and family therapist, and start teaching at the graduate level.

Perry: Man, these girlfriends know you well.

Rajani: Hahahahaha. I have been really, really blessed with community, what can I say? Haha.

Perry: You go out and you build it. You are a builder. Whether it’s a builder of community, a builder of businesses, a builder of confidence with your students. You’re a builder and that’s just so wonderful to see and it’s very inspiring. So what are some tools that you’ve used to leverage the power of technology in your private practice so that technology is no longer a hurdle but instead an asset for you?

Rajani: I use encrypted email and that’s one thing that really helps me to use confidential email with my clients.

Perry: And what service do you use for your encrypted email?

Rajani: I use Hush Mail.

Perry: They’re fantastic.

Rajani: I use VC for online sessions. I do do online consultations on number of different places as well. I find that very helpful.

Perry: VC?

Rajani: Yes, VC. It’s actually hipaa compliant service which Skype is not. So VC is a fantastic service that I really recommend.

Perry: What’s their URL? I don’t think I actually heard of that before.

Rajani: It’s V as in Victor SEE.

Perry: vc.com/ Great, yeah. We definitely don’t use Skype to do your online sessions. Yeah, I’ve never seen vc before. That’s fascinating. I thought I knew all the online hipaa compliant therapy tools out there for tele-health and tele-medicine but I’ve never seen VC before. Fantastic, we’ll definitely have that in the show notes.

Rajani: And they will sign a business associates agreement and will provide you an online waiting room for your clients. It’s a beautiful service. I get a lot out of it.

Perry: Are most of your clients in the San Francisco area or do you see people outside of the San Francisco area as well?

Rajani: Majority of my clients are in the San Francisco are. I do have a couple of overseas clients who worked with me in person and now when they’re back in their home country we continue via VC.

Perry: Got you. Perfect. This program looks great. I’m going to definitely check it out after we finish up here. So what’s a quote that you hold near and dear? Something that has helped formulate your perspective on life or has inspired, motivated, or provided guidance for you?

Rajani: I’ve got two. One that my father always said which is, “None of your life’s experiences are wasted on you.” And as a therapist there is nothing that is more true. Hahaha. And the other one that really guides my therapy practice is a quote that’s attributed to Lilla Watson who said, “If you have come to help me you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine then let us walk together.” And it helps me to really see the mutuality and reciprocity within the therapeutic process. I am not here just to help my clients but because we work together and I am made a better person by this opportunity to bear witness to their journey. And I grow through my work with them.

Perry: I love both of those quotes so much. If you could recommend one book to our audience what would that book be?

Rajani: It would be Julia Cameron’s ‘The Artist Way’. Not thinking of therapy book, I think for the audience of the Therapist Experience, we need to do a little different if we’re going to be entrepreneurs.

Perry: Most definitely.

Rajani: We need to use creativity to encounter our own passion, our hearts longing. And plant these seeds for the dreams that need to be planted in the sun and lovingly watered until they make beautiful plants with lots of flowers.

Perry: Man, you are being an author here.

Rajani: Haha. I do write.

Perry: I know you write and you blog a lot but you got to write your own book here too. It’s like listening to poetry just chatting with you here.

Rajani: I actually just finished two chapters for an upcoming book on EMDR therapy It’s an upcoming book called ‘Cultural Competence and Healing Culturally Based Trauma With EMDR Therapy’ and I just finished two chapters for the book.

Perry: Congratulations, that’s awesome. Fantastic. Keep on writing, please.

Rajani: Thank you. Hahaha.

Perry: Alright, Rajani. Last question. If you moved to a new city tomorrow, you didn’t know anybody there and all you had with you was your computer and 100 dollars to start a new private practice, what is it that you would do on your very first day?

Rajani: I think I have an unfair advantage in answering this question because 20 years ago I came to San Francisco all the way from Calcutta knowing only one person here. So I already know it can be done. Hahahahaha.

Perry: You know, that is an unfair advantage but that’s why we have you on here. To share that unfair advantage with the world.

Rajani: At this point, Perry, I would reach out to my extensive network and ask them all to introduce me to their contacts in the new city and I would call Perry and say, “Hey, what do I need to do to get my website to really locate me in this new city rather than in my own community so that I can leverage all of it together?” So that’s what I would do my first day. I call Perry and say, “Support me Perry!” Hahahaha.

Perry: Yeah, unfortunately I don’t know if you’d be able to get through at this point. I got to the point of like unplugging my phone because he’s just ringing so much. Alright. That was the last question. Any parting advice for our listeners?

Rajani: I’d say, we are therapists and therefore we are all people people. We may not all be tech people, or business people, or marketing people. And some of us are introverts and some of us are extroverts. But yet, in some way we’re all people people and that’s why we became therapists. So when it comes to people we have very specialized knowledge and expertise and we know how to talk to people. So in some ways we’re actually ahead of the curve as business owners and entrepreneurs. We just don’t know it yet.

Perry: Very true. I love that. And you use your skills as a people person because business, so much of it is just relationships. People do business with those that they know, like, and trust. And you’re going to be a business owner or you are a business owner and use those skills. Fantastic. Well Rajani, where can our listeners find you to connect and learn more about you?

Rajani: My website is levistherapy.com/ and I’m actually easily reachable by email [email protected] and I look forward to sharing my new website. Talking about therapy with the whole community.

Perry: Yeah, we can’t wait to share it as well. Well, Rajani, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for coming on and, of course, everyone listening up there you can find all the resources that Rajani has mentioned at brightervision.com/session19/ Rajani, again, thank you for being so generous with your time, your expertise, and your knowledge. We appreciate all the great advice that you provided and the therapist experience you have shared. Thank you again.

Rajani: Thank you.

Perry: Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you have a question for us you can email it to us at [email protected], and of course, if you’re interested in launching a website head on over to Brighter Vision, check us out, drop us a line. We are the worldwide leader in custom therapist website design and we’ll build you a website that is as unique as your practice for only 59 dollars a month. That does it for today. Thank you so much for listening and we will catch you next week.